Future Scope of Flex

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Future Scope of Flex

FlexCoders mailing list
Hi Flex Guys,

Hope you are enjoying your flex life.

I have a perception that Flash/Flex are dying technologies particularly after the evolution of Html5.
To relate my perception with facts and figures, I did a little research and found that in the freelancing sites particularly elance, the inflow of projects related to Flex have declined drastically.
I know that Adobe and Apache have been working to make a bridge between ActionScript and JavaScript, but the result is yet to be applauded.

I have several doubts in my mind. What is the Flex's future? What's the current status/demand of Flex in International software industries? Do the flex developers need to migrate to Html5? Is FlexJS capable of bridging the gap between AS and JS?

As you guys are working in various organizations, please share your thoughts and views on this and help me in better analysis.

Regards,
Jameel
 
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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I moved over to android then to php mysql ajax on my latest project. (Mobile phone mapping) Android OS is GREAT, Javascript is for fools, naves, and managers.
 Can't come close to what I could do in Flex, and its a lot harder to get it just right.
 It is a great employment tool for tech tho, I really have to give it that.
 Please, Please, SOMEBODY come up with something to get rid of javascript.
 The basic idea of an after creation bolt on solution is a bad idea.
 It could work if html was 100 percent uniform, but even then its a bad idea.
 Given the incompatibilities and absurd trivia you have to deal with,... yech.
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Adobe have dumped Flex , don’t think even Apache’s evolvement will give
some hope . So better move out , I have not seen any new project
development using Adobe Flex. However most of the Flex projects are in
migrating  to HTML5 J .

Not for Flex , even Adobe’s quality of technical support have decreased
drastically. So I am very selective in using Adobe products now .


--
Mathew Easow Jacob
+91-9886979038
Bangalore
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Technologies come and go. When I was a kid - the coolest thing in the world was the NextStep computer. It died but eventually reemerged as the Mac OS. Languages come and go as well. Flex and AS were great for a time - but the proprietary nature of the language killed it a few years ago.  The web in general has moved away from plugin based interfaces.  As standards have come together - the browser makes have adopted js as the language of choice with CSS/HTML for templates and styles.

That's not something to fear - that's just the way technology works. It's a tool.  

JS is easy to learn - so learn it.  The tools available today in various platforms are easy to pick up as well. JS has some truly great parts - like promises - that were never really implemented in Flex/flash.  

I think it's a good idea as a dev to always keep learning.  It doesn't matter that tech A is killed by tech B --- if you keep learning you will always have a job.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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The original authors must be going nuts, in deep depression at least. They climbed mount everest to the pinnacle of human interface design and did it in a universally accessible way. At the bottom line if you can't mathematically relate every single pixel on the screen to every other one, over time, you are by definition inferior to flash.
 
 While I am currently working in Php/Mysql/ with Ajax on top due to the nature of the project (absolute universal access), I think there is still hope. More are taking flash to the browser native. Very smart move. If the standards are there it will in time inevitably dominate. To save face it will probably be called some "great new tech" called "bonzoshow" or something :)
 
 Everybody literally freaked out at jobs' dying statement, jumped on the "it won't run mobile" and like a herd of lemmings everybody dove for the exits. Well mobile was single core then its quad and more now. Flash was and will be again I think a universal solution to absolutely superior user interface design. Pixel by Pixel over time. A growing morphing button is a single mathematics equation, not an unpredictable herd of objects clattering around in an approximation.
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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4 years after the promise that HTML5 will change the world and will
suppress any other technology for web sites and web applications, we don't
see that happens. Flash is not dead, Flex is not dead and HTML/JS is
getting some difficulties in the last 4 - 6 months to continue its growth
as it was in later years.

Maybe it's because people are tired of waiting a real change in HTML/JS
stack and it's tools? seeing that they continue without getting the tools
and facilities they had years ago with Flex and Flash? I don't know, but we
can see lots of signals out there:

* ActionScript 3 entering again in TIOBE list of 20 most used programming
languages. I think latest week it climbed again to 17th position.

* Adobe AIR getting more that 1 Billion apps installed (right now 1.8
Billion) in all desktop and mobile devices all over the world

* Apache Flex getting lots of momentum with many people working on bug
fixing and releases (near every month there's a new Apache Flex release)

* The new framework FlexJS to use Flash or HTML/JS that continues
developing.

* HTML5 video is still crap and is still key technology in Google and
Youtube

* Adobe AIR strategy to "code once and run in every desktop and mobile
device" is widely adopted (since Flex Apps running in Safari Mobile, the
only scenario where Flash can not be deployed is not important anymore
since people prefer Native Apps than Mobile Browser Apps, and Adobe AIR
with Flex is a great solution for this purpose).

In TIC, many people is getting frustrated of HTML and they are coming back
to Flex again, since all the marketing buzz is now vanishing and they see
that there's no productivity like before when you switch from Flex to HTML.

Flex is not the king anymore since there's other options out there, HTML,
native, .... but is still a very valid technology to make Apps for desktop
and mobile, and for many the best.

My own way of thinking is use each tech for what they were made for. So use
HTML for web sites and marketing online (wordpress, and the myriad of other
html techs out there), and use Flex for Application development for desktop
and mobile (with Adobe AIR).

For me using HTML to build apps or using Flex to build web sites is a wrong
decision.

Adobe said it will cost 5 years to HTML...well after 4 years and still
nothing in the horizon that could us think that promise could be real, I
think we have Flex for several more years still ahead.
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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I notice you don't compare it to your prior experience developing user interfaces in flash?
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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like promises - that were never really implemented in Flex/flash.  Like what specifically?
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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>
> like promises - that were never really implemented in Flex/flash.
> Like what specifically?
>

Try this:

http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/es6/promises/
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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I built the Rosetta Stone user interface in flex and the EA Pogo flex games interface and online store were also built by me. I was using flash when it was the Futuresplash player. I was a very early adopter.

Adobe F'd it in the A  by mismanaging the technology that WAS really great.  But - time goes on and you change technologies.  I wrote a ton of Lingo in director too - along with vbscript for IE only interfaces. I've had my share of dead end technologies.  Technologies rise and fall - a good dev realizes it's all pretty much the same from tech to tech - the syntax changes but the patterns are transferable.

Now though - there is no justifiable reason to do any development in flex.  Adobe has given up on it. It is not going to be a viable platform for the future.

Luckily - js is almost exactly like Actionscript. Anybody that is good at AS can write JS in no time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2014, at 8:22 PM, "[hidden email] [flexcoders]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I notice you don't compare it to your prior experience developing user interfaces in flash?
>
>
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Well, I don't know if Flash will return to being the solution for UI design.  With all of the various mobile browsers, I don't know if Flash will be able to run in all of them.

But Flex, on the other hand, could.  That's what I'm trying to make happen with FlexJS.  FlexJS won't control every pixel like you could in Flash (at least, certainly not early versions), but it should provide the other benefits that folks have found missing, mainly in terms of developer productivity.

Yes, Flex isn't as popular as it was before Adobe donated it to Apache.  Adobe was spending serious money on getting folks to use Flex.  But every day, some other product or idea goes viral without million-dollar marketing schemes.  So, if you like Flex, take a look at FlexJS and tell us on the Apache Flex dev list ([hidden email]) what it needs before you'll start recommending it to others such that it can go viral.  IOW, you have to do your own marketing if you want to see more Flex jobs, and you have to help shape Flex and/or FlexJS into something worth marketing.  No big company is going to do that for you.

FlexJS isn't out to compete against HTML5.  In fact, it is simply out to leverage it.  As I've been working on FlexJS and talking to Flex folks who are now developing in some JS framework, it is becoming clear to me that any application developer using any framework is really just attaching components together.   There is a longer version of what I'm about to write on the Apache Flex LinkedIn discussion group,  but basically, the problem with JS is that you can attach anything to anything.  Newer languages (TypeScript, DART) have constructs to try to catch those mistakes.  ActionScript can do an even better job, especially for really big apps.  And MXML gives you a schematic of your components.

These days, I'm hoping to find folks who can help those of us working on FlexJS prove that AS and MXML can make you more proficient at attaching nearly any JS framework's components together.  Then someday,  it won't matter what JS framework your client wants to use, you'll use MXML and ActionScript to assemble that JS framework's components into an application and make fewer mistakes along the way.  But that someday will come sooner if folks can contribute their time and energy to the project.

If you can help out, send an email to [hidden email].

-Alex

From: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> [flexcoders]" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Reply-To: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Date: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:39 AM
To: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Future Scope of Flex



The original authors must be going nuts, in deep depression at least.

They climbed mount everest to the pinnacle of human interface design and did it in a universally accessible way. At the bottom line if you can't mathematically relate every single pixel on the screen to every other one, over time, you are by definition inferior to flash.
While I am currently working in Php/Mysql/ with Ajax on top due to the nature of the project (absolute universal access), I think there is still hope. More are taking flash to the browser native. Very smart move. If the standards are there it will in time inevitably dominate. To save face it will probably be called some "great new tech" called "bonzoshow" or something :)
Everybody literally freaked out at jobs' dying statement, jumped on the "it won't run mobile" and like a herd of lemmings everybody dove for the exits. Well mobile was si! ngle core then its quad and more now. Flash was and will be again I think a universal solution to absolutely superior user interface design. Pixel by Pixel over time. A growing morphing button is a single mathematics equation, not an unpredictable herd of objects clattering around in an approximation.


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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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On 8/16/2014 6:35 PM, Scott Fanetti [hidden email] [flexcoders]
wrote:
> Luckily - js is almost exactly like Actionscript. Anybody that is good
> at AS can write JS in no time.
If you don't mind working in a language that:

a) Doesn't have type declarations for variables, arguments, and function
return values

b) Has no built-in syntax for classes and objects.  You have to build a
template object and assign all the functions as "attributes" of the
template.

c) Doesn't have the enormous library of built-in classes that comes with
AS2 or AS3.

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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Excelent idea Alex, thanks for sharing.


Juan Carlos Perez

> On Aug 17, 2014, at 2:00, "Alex Harui [hidden email] [flexcoders]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, I don't know if Flash will return to being the solution for UI design.  With all of the various mobile browsers, I don't know if Flash will be able to run in all of them.
>
> But Flex, on the other hand, could.  That's what I'm trying to make happen with FlexJS.  FlexJS won't control every pixel like you could in Flash (at least, certainly not early versions), but it should provide the other benefits that folks have found missing, mainly in terms of developer productivity.
>
> Yes, Flex isn't as popular as it was before Adobe donated it to Apache.  Adobe was spending serious money on getting folks to use Flex.  But every day, some other product or idea goes viral without million-dollar marketing schemes.  So, if you like Flex, take a look at FlexJS and tell us on the Apache Flex dev list ([hidden email]) what it needs before you'll start recommending it to others such that it can go viral.  IOW, you have to do your own marketing if you want to see more Flex jobs, and you have to help shape Flex and/or FlexJS into something worth marketing.  No big company is going to do that for you.
>
> FlexJS isn't out to compete against HTML5.  In fact, it is simply out to leverage it.  As I've been working on FlexJS and talking to Flex folks who are now developing in some JS framework, it is becoming clear to me that any application developer using any framework is really just attaching components together.   There is a longer version of what I'm about to write on the Apache Flex LinkedIn discussion group,  but basically, the problem with JS is that you can attach anything to anything.  Newer languages (TypeScript, DART) have constructs to try to catch those mistakes.  ActionScript can do an even better job, especially for really big apps.  And MXML gives you a schematic of your components.
>
> These days, I'm hoping to find folks who can help those of us working on FlexJS prove that AS and MXML can make you more proficient at attaching nearly any JS framework's components together.  Then someday,  it won't matter what JS framework your client wants to use, you'll use MXML and ActionScript to assemble that JS framework's components into an application and make fewer mistakes along the way.  But that someday will come sooner if folks can contribute their time and energy to the project.
>
> If you can help out, send an email to [hidden email].
>
> -Alex
>
> From: "[hidden email] [flexcoders]" <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:39 AM
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Future Scope of Flex
>
>  
> The original authors must be going nuts, in deep depression at least.
>
> They climbed mount everest to the pinnacle of human interface design and did it in a universally accessible way. At the bottom line if you can't mathematically relate every single pixel on the screen to every other one, over time, you are by definition  inferior to flash.
> While I am currently working in Php/Mysql/ with Ajax on top due to the nature of the project (absolute universal access), I think there is still hope. More are taking flash to the browser native. Very smart move. If the standards are there it will in time  inevitably dominate. To save face it will probably be called some "great new tech" called "bonzoshow" or something :)
> Everybody literally freaked out at jobs' dying statement, jumped on the "it won't run mobile" and like a herd of lemmings everybody dove for the exits. Well mobile was si! ngle core then its quad and more now. Flash was and will be again I think a universal solution to absolutely superior user interface design. Pixel by Pixel over time. A growing morphing button is a single mathematics equation, not an unpredictable herd of objects clattering around in an approximation.
>
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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The only thing that AS3 and Javascript have in common is ECMAScript. It's
quite tricky to create OOP javascript that is well organized by yourself.
That's why we have all these external libraries (backbone, angular, etc...)
that try and help. That's also why Flash is a plugin... Even though being a
plugin is it's downfall... By being a plugin it doesn't have to play by the
rules of the DOM which are different on every browser. It can release new
versions that will apply to every browser. It's just unfortunate that the
web was built in such a way that there is no better way.  Unless you want
to create an As3 tool that compiles down to Javascript. Unless you can get
all the browser makers to agree on one new language that would make the
javascript situation better.
If you want to build something in Javascript you are mainly relying on the
community aka Github. Which isn't bad, but it doesn't guarantee you a bug
free situation (not that Flex does, but at least you know that it's a
production release). Most of your projects will import tons of libraries
just to get the initial functionality you need. Some may import double
functionality. For example.. You might import bootstrap's javascript...
Which has a crappy autocomplete built in to version 2 but not version 3.
But you shouldn't use it because it's poorly written. Which you wouldn't
know unless you tried it out.. then might have found this article.
http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2013/12/9/stop-being-clever/ ...
Anywho... Of course you can now do mostly everything in Javascript that you
used to do in Flash (except copy to the clipboard). The big difference is
that you'll wind up doing a lot more research to find out how to do X.
Doing the research is overwhelming and you'll often have to try out a lot
of untested stuff. Making things work often comes with caveats.
There are full fledged flex-like solutions for Javascript but they cost
ridiculous amounts of money (per month!)... That's just depressing.
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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> js is almost exactly like Actionscript. Typical of a JS advocate, no real knowledge of object oriented structures and concepts. Bet this is by another manager type that doesn't know an array from a variable (actually that WOULD be the same level of knowledge in this case wouldn't it.)
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Think the person was simply referring to the vocabulary and syntax, since
they're both based on the ECMA standards. Not sure it deserved an ad
hominem attack. It's a pretty accurate statement that someone who knows
ActionScript won't be baffled by JS.


On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:50 AM, [hidden email] [flexcoders] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> > js is almost exactly like Actionscript.
> Typical of a JS advocate, no real knowledge of object oriented structures
> and concepts. Bet this is by another manager type that doesn't know an
> array from a variable (actually that WOULD be the same level of knowledge
> in this case wouldn't it.)
>
>  
>



--
John Hall
[hidden email]
http://www.cactusware.com
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Wow - I really don't think this is the forum for character assassination. I've been a polyglot developer and architect for 20 years.  One thing in technology is constant - that is change.  

Adapt.  It is childish to cling to a technology like a fanboy.  

Dynamic languages use different paradigms than strongly typed languages.  In these contexts functional styles and extension through composition are favored over extension through inheritance.  But these are all just tools for communication between the dev and the user.  

The users have chosen a route that no longer needs flex/flash. That is neither good nor bad - it just is.  

You may dislike parts of technology A and think it's inferior to technology B - but have you considered the notion that possibly you may be trying I hammer nails with a saw? You may dislike that JS does not have the type safety of AS. But if you are relying on type checking you are missing the boat. The compiler can't check if your logic is bad. It can only check that something like tab a is in slot b.

You still have to unit test. All the skills you bring to solve a problem are only marginally helped by the compiler bitching that a class does not have a method to support an interface.  There is nothing inherently bad about prototypical inheritance as opposed to class based inheritance. As a matter of fact you typically don't need to use inheritance in JS.  

Tell me - is it cleaner to devolve functionality into representations that can be decorated onto any object - and you test the functionality itself? Or to HAVE to inherit from class A in order to get the features if class A? You can't do multiple inheritance in AS - so you have to hack around with interfaces and utils or you must repeat yourself.  

In JS - just decorate what you need with what you need it to do.  

It's all good bro. I'm just saying that as a seasoned flex dev that feared moving to JS - in my experience - it was an easy transition.  But whatever. Have a great day!

And I accept the apology you certainly forgot to add by calling me a manager :). I realize it's hard to be civil when someone is wrong on the internet.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2014, at 9:50 AM, "[hidden email] [flexcoders]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > js is almost exactly like Actionscript.
>
> Typical of a JS advocate, no real knowledge of object oriented structures and concepts. Bet this is by another manager type that doesn't know an array from a variable (actually that WOULD be the same level of knowledge in this case wouldn't it.)
>
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Hi all.

Try Wakanda JS and be happy & forgot flash/flex and etc. It's Ann
All-on-one solution: http server, NoSql database, JS framawork for frontend
and backend and have an amazing RAD tool for HTML5 UI design an much
more... And it's extremely well documented anos have lotes of videos 4 free

Ser in: http://www.wakanda.org
Em 18/08/2014 10:50, "[hidden email] [flexcoders]" <
[hidden email]> escreveu:

>
>
> > js is almost exactly like Actionscript.
> Typical of a JS advocate, no real knowledge of object oriented structures
> and concepts. Bet this is by another manager type that doesn't know an
> array from a variable (actually that WOULD be the same level of knowledge
> in this case wouldn't it.)
>  
>
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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Hi Guyz,
 Thanks for your reply.
 
 Your suggestions are indeed vital.
 At least all the flex developers should know where they stand in the current competitive market.
 
 I think it's time that flex can take advantage of the frustration growing around Html5/JS.
 
 Flex is a really cool tool to develop RIAs and apps.
 
 Hope FlexJS will bring good news for Flex developers.
 
 Thanks a lot guyz.
 
 Regards,
 Jameel
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Re: Future Scope of Flex

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>Of course you can now do mostly everything in Javascript that you used to do in Flash  Really ?
 Hows the RTMP networking going?
 Ever see the Fedex app?
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